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Muslim Life Hackers
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar: Rediscovering Our Rich Islamic History
In this episode, Shaykh Ismail Kamdar joins us to discuss Islamic history and how the world would look like under a Muslim rule. We cover topics such as the importance of understanding Islamic history, World War I's impact on Muslims, the distinction between Islamic and Muslim history, the freedoms under the Ottoman Empire and the misconceptions about Shariah Law. The discussion provides valuable reflections on the modern-day challenges Muslims face and the lessons we can learn from history.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
06:13 The Importance of Knowing Our History
07:25 World War I and Its Impact on the Muslim World
18:52 Social Media's Influence on Modern Sins
24:40 The Ottoman Empire: A Model of Freedom
29:09 Atheism and Uncommon Beliefs in Islamic History
32:00 Freedom of Movement and Governance under Sharia
36:29 Taxation in Islamic History
41:35 Modern Oppression and Illusion of Freedom
45:43 Reviving Sharia and Historical Lessons
About Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar is a graduate of a traditional Alim program (Talimuddin, 2006) and also holds a Bachelor’s in Islamic Studies (IOU, 2014). He has studied Islam in both traditional and modern settings and has been a student of Islamic Studies for over two decades.
He served as faculty manager at the International Open University for ten years, from 2010 to 2020. He also founded Izzah Academy in 2022. His books are currently available in three different languages, and sold across five continents. He has written over 25 books including Getting The Barakah, Productivity Principles of Umar II, Themes of the Quran, and 25 Keys to a Happy Life. He currently works as a researcher and project manager at Yaqeen Institute.
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🏖️ This episode is sponsored by Sisters Explore, a company I founded to offer guided small-group travel for Muslim women to connect, explore, and enjoy faith-centered journeys. Learn more at http://www.sisters-explore.com
Disclaimer: Some links in this description are affiliate links.
Many people don't know that World War I, is one of the most important events in Muslim history. It directly impacts how the Muslim world is today in many different ways. But because we are so ignorant of our history, we think of it as a European event that had nothing to do with Muslims.
Mifrah Mahroof:Asalamu Alaikum everyone and welcome to the show. I'm your host Mifrah Mahroof and in today's episode we have on Shaykh Ismail Kamdar. So a bit about our guest today, Shaykh Ismail is the graduate of a traditional Alim program and also holds a Bachelor's in Islamic Studies. He has studied Islam in both traditional and modern setting and has been a student of knowledge over two decades. He has served as a faculty manager at the Islamic Open University for 10 years, has written over 25 books and is currently the researcher and project manager at Yaqeen Institute. So I hope you enjoyed this episode and without further ado, let's get started. Asalamu Alaikum. Welcome to the show.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Wa'alaikumsalam Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh
Mifrah Mahroof:Well, thank you so much for coming on. so you were one of our guests that we had back in the days where Muslim Life Hackers, I think it was like 2015. So it's a pleasure to have you back on again. And this time doing Muslim Life Hackers 2. 0. So, what actually has changed since then? I know it's been a very long time.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, it's been a almost a full decade. So I think in many ways everything's changed, right? When I first came on Muslim Life Hackers, I was a young man starting my first online business and self publishing my first books and Alhamdulillah, a lot has changed since then. Back then I was working for the International Open University now I'm the Yaqeen Institute as a researcher. And The website that I started around the same time as Muslim Life Hackers, Islamic Self Help, is still going strong.
Mifrah Mahroof:Alhamdulillah, that's really nice. It's good that you continued
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:think one big
Mifrah Mahroof:paused.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, most people pause. I think the one big difference for me is that, when we started, I had just started homeschooling my kids, and they were all small children, and now I've got all teenagers. And they're actually working for me at Islamic Self Help and they've already started, doing behind the scenes work on video editing and things like that. So, it's a very different stage of life for me.
Mifrah Mahroof:Oh, that's really nice. Cause I'm actually just starting. I am where you were 10 years back. Now I have my own daughter and now I'm thinking about, different schooling options, what's out there. And, it's going to be an interesting decade ahead, InshaAllah. I'm still alive.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah. I know, when my eldest son was born, I spent like four or five years researching every type of school system and speaking to different people before making the decision to homeschool him. It's a big decision to make.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah, a hundred percent. And I know like you have so many interests. So you had the homeschooling, you have the personal development, and now recently you also told me how you got into the whole Islamic masculinity, around all those, especially with all the discussions that are happening these days online. But in today's podcast, I would really love to go deeper on another passion that you have of Islamic history. So where did that all begin?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Islamic history has always been a passion of mine, one of my earliest memories as a child, when I first started reading what my mom bought me, the biographies of the Sahaba collection, and I read all of them as a child, maybe when I was like 7 or 8 years old. I've always had a passion for history from a very young age, I've always noticed it as a gap in our curriculum. Like, even when I did my Alimiyah program. There was no history component to it. That's a major gap currently. Many Alimiyyah programs don't teach history. And it was so bad that some of my teachers would actually rely on me for historical information. Like, they would ask me the name of the Sahabi, or that king, or when did this happen, when did that happen. I was like 14 or 15 years old, and my teachers were in their 30s and 40s. But History just wasn't taught. It wasn't something that was commonly taught, and I always found that to be problematic. Because we are living in such a strange time. And if you don't know history, you just think that this is the way it's always been. That's the major gap in most people's mind, right? They think. we've had the Prophet SAW, then we had the Khulafa Rashidin, and then we have the mess we're in today. There's like a 1, 300 year gap. That's completely blank in many people's minds. And what happened was, when I was working at the International Open University, which I worked at for over 10 years, I was the Islamic History teacher there. And every year I would be taking a different group of students through Islamic History, and I would notice certain trends amongst them, right? Islamic History was a shocker for them. Many of them thought that it's just going to be stories of the Sahaba, and it's going to be motivational, and it's going to be all nice things that happen. And then they learn about these civil wars, and these brutal kings, and murders, and the Mongols, and the Crusaders, and the Reconquista, and Some of them actually used to get overwhelmed. They were like, this is not what we thought our history was. Because, again, we have such a gap in our history. That for us, when we think of history for many people, all they think about is stories of the Sahaba and stories of the Auliya. And for me, I've always had this attitude of being as transparent and open about our history as possible. Not leaving anything to the books, like if something happened, I talk about it. Like I just did a four part Jummah Khutbah series on the aftermath of Karbala. The 14 year civil war that took place after karbala and that's like a topic nobody talks about because it's a very dark part of our history
Mifrah Mahroof:yeah,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:But I realized that there was no real resource in the English language on Muslim history that, it's comprehensive from the time of the Prophet SAW until today and what happened was in 2020 during the lockdown I was stuck at home. I was bored. I said, you know what? Let me record it. So once a week, over a 10 month period, I recorded a 30 part series. I put it up on my website. I thought I'll get maybe 30 or 40 people to sign up. I was surprised. Right now we have 1,900 sales. So, Alhamdulillah,
Mifrah Mahroof:Well, it really shows the
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:far the most successful thing I published.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah. So, if you were to take a few steps back, why do you think it's so important that we know our history? because the thing is, if you know the Prophet SAW time, you know the Sahaba's time, then you have your framework, your role models. Then, what happened in
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:What's the point of
Mifrah Mahroof:What's the point, hey?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah. That's a good question. That's a good starting point for a discussion. I think one of the best ways to start off is to make a distinction, and I make this distinction in all my history courses and books, a distinction between Islamic history and Muslim history, right? So, Islamic history is the stories of the Prophets and the Sahaba. That's where we learn Islam from, that's where we get our role models
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Everything that happens after that is Muslim history. Basically, after the time of the Sahaba, it's normal people like you and me, they have their good, they have their bad, they have their ups, they have their downs, they have their faults, they have their victories, they're not necessarily role models, and if you understand that this is Muslim history, not Islamic history, you now have a distinction, okay, I'm not studying this to learn Islam, I'm just studying this to learn it. What happened in the world, right? What did Muslims ever do or accomplish or how did we get to where we are? That's the most important question to me. How did we get to, where we are? So for example, I spent a lot of this year specifically studying and teaching the history of the past 200 years the colonialism and World War I, and how these two events affected the Muslim world. Many people don't know that World War I, is one of the most important events in Muslim history. It directly impacts how the Muslim world is today in many different ways. But because we are so ignorant of our history, we think of it as a European event that had nothing to do with Muslims,
Mifrah Mahroof:Okay. So why is that important? World War I.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Well, simply put the Ottoman Empire lost World War I, and the Khilafat was abolished, and the Muslim lands were taken over by the British and the French and divided into the countries that we have today.
Mifrah Mahroof:So the Ottoman Empire was an Islamic, a Muslim empire.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:It was the last caliphate, the last Darul Islam, the last Sharia land, and it was still a superpower in the world right until World War I started. It just so happened that it was on the losing side of that war.
Mifrah Mahroof:So it was actually a superpower up until that time.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Right, till that time, in fact, one of the interesting things about the Ottoman Empire is they spent the 18th century restructuring to be a modern Khilafat. So they had changed a lot of their policies and administration, to basically make the Khilafat work in the new world, in the 20th century. But they never got a chance to test all of that because they lost the war and they lost all their lands.
Mifrah Mahroof:Oh, wow.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah. So this is a part of our history people don't know about at all. It is very difficult to even find books on these topics. I had to put together 20 different books, each with little pieces of it. And, read all 20 books to put the pieces together in my mind, to understand properly what exactly happened. Because Just 300 or 400 years ago, the Ottoman Empire was the largest and most powerful empire in the world. It was the world's superpower. Right? It was the most powerful empire in the world. So how did we go in 400 years from being the most powerful empire in the world to being in the mess that the Muslim world is in today? Right? Because we don't study history, we don't know. And because we don't write enough about history, it's very hard to access this information. the main point of studying all of this is to understand how did we end up where we are, right? the other main reason to study history is that common saying, those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it, right? History is cyclical, it goes through cycles, there is ups and downs of history. When I study history, I notice trends. Things that happened in the past that kind of are happening again today. And when you study history, it makes a lot more sense, right? I'll give you two examples. Number one, about 800 years ago or 700 years ago, Palestine was conquered by the Christians, the Crusaders. And for about 90 years, the Muslims of that land were oppressed.
Mifrah Mahroof:90 years
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:then a new Muslim power rose up. Yeah. So a new Muslim power rose up. Salahuddin Ayyubi and reconquered that land and it became a Muslim land again until World War I.
Mifrah Mahroof:And how long was that? So after it got
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:That was another 700 years. like So for about 700 years, it was a Muslim. It wasn't under one Khalifa. It kept changing power, but it was always Muslim powers, right? Yeah, because it was the Ayyubis, then the Mamluks, then the Ottomans, but it was a Muslim land, and right to the end. So, for example, Zionism started in the 1800s. And they spent a lot of time trying to buy off Palestine from the Ottoman Empire. And the Ottomans told them, as long as we are around, you cannot have that land. So the Zionists conspired with the British in World War I, and gave them weapons, advanced weapons, not in exchange for any money, but in exchange for a promise that if they win that war, they will give that land to the Zionists. And that's really how Israel started, right? The foundations of Israel were also again in World War I. That's why I say we're still living in the aftermath of World War I. Everything from the Israel Palestine conflict, to not having a Khilafat, to being divided into nation states. To be living as minorities in non Muslim lands, all of this is still ripple effects of what happened in World War I. So there's there's repeated events here in history, right? Muslims ruled Jerusalem for the bulk of our history. At one point, the Christians took over for a while, oppressed everyone. Muslims got it back. Now the Jews have taken over for a while, are oppressing everyone. InshaAllah, Muslims will get it back as well. Second example, about 800 years ago, the Arab Khilafat collapsed, right? We had Arab Khalifas for the first 600 years of our history, the Omas and the Abbas, and then the Mongols invaded and the Khilafat collapsed, and people thought it was the end times. They thought, it's the end of the world. There's never gonna be a Khilafat again, it was a very dark period for the Muslims,
Mifrah Mahroof:How long was that?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:200 years later, 200 year. This is 800 years. ago, right? 200 years later, the Ottoman Empire rises. And now we have a Turkish Khilafat that goes on for another 500 years. Right? And then that collapses exactly 100 years ago in 1924.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah. Like, uh,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:a lot of people think that this is our first time in our history without a khalifa, there's actually a 200 year gap where there was no clear Khalifa. Some people say there was a Prophet Abbasid, some say the Mamluk, some say the safavid. But the fact is, for those 200 years, the Muslims were divided into many smaller lands. Each with their own king, each of whom were fighting each other, and none of whom really had the power to call themselves the Khalifa. Right, and even the Ottomans in the early years were just a small state, right, just a few cities. It took them 200 to 300 years to reach the level of power where they felt confident to start calling themselves Khalifas. They didn't call themselves Khalifas straight away, right. It was only after they had conquered Constantinople, which is Istanbul today, Palestine, Jerusalem. Makkah and Madinah. Once they were ruling these four capital cities then only they had the confidence to say we are the Khalifas of the Muslim world.
Mifrah Mahroof:That's interesting. So, it makes me think like if you were to speak to someone who was in those down periods, like that 200 year or that 80 year down period before Jerusalem was conquered,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:yeah.
Mifrah Mahroof:might've, been a very bleak conversation with whoever was
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:It would have been. In fact if you read the books written in that period, the books in that period can be very depressing. So many of the ulama that lived during that period, they actively described the Mongols as Yajud and Majud, as Gog and Magog. Like, they actually thought they were living in the end times, and this is Gog and Magog, and it's over, right, we now, the world is ending. But, the world's still around, over 800 years later. And the thing is, many people today have that same mindset, right? And Allah knows best, the world could go on for another thousand years.
Mifrah Mahroof:That's an interesting one because those people now who think that, Hey, we're at the end of times, it's because some people feel that, Hey, all of these minor signs have happened. And we're at the peak of such all of these shameless deeds and stuff that are happening. So they feel that, okay, this is it, this is the end of times. I'm curious to know, what are your thoughts on that?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:So, as a historian, I notice every generation thinks they're living in the end times. Starting right with the Sahaba. The Sahaba, many of them thought the Dajjal might come in their lifetime, right?
Mifrah Mahroof:And that's how
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Every generation thinks they are living in the end times.
Mifrah Mahroof:too. Like it's,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, every generation thinks that. Because every generation is definitely closer to the end times than generation before them. Right? and there's always crazy things happening in the world, like right now there's a lot of things going on in the world that are quite depressing and scary. There are many actual signs of the Day of Judgment that are happening at the moment, but those are the minor signs, not the major signs. And, there's a hadith where the Prophet SAW was asked, when will the Day of Judgment happen? And he replied, what have you prepared for it? Right, meaning it's not our job to speculate whether it's the end times or not. It's our job to prepare for Jannah, right, because we don't know. It could happen in our lifetime, it could happen in a hundred years time, it could happen in a thousand years time. There is no way to know for sure, until the actual major signs start rolling in, that we are living in the end times. And I feel a lot of people use this as a crutch not to do anything with their life.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yes. That's what I've notice as
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:well. You know, to just sit back.
Mifrah Mahroof:It's like, okay, well,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:back, they complain, the world is doomed. Only Mahdi can fix it. Only Jesus can fix
Mifrah Mahroof:Mahdi can that.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:yeah. Yeah.
Mifrah Mahroof:So what do you
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:and what's strange is when you actually study the signs of the times, it's very clear that when the Mahdi comes and when Dajjal comes, there will be a Khilafat already, Muslims will be ruling a large portion of the world.
Mifrah Mahroof:Interesting.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:And there will actually be like a world war between Europeans and Muslims before Mahdi comes and before Dajjal comes. So, we're still very far away from any of that.
Mifrah Mahroof:I guess it means that we need to get back to actually looking at what we're preparing for that Day of Judgment.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, everyone should focus on what they are doing to prepare for the afterlife. And, going back to your question about why we should study history. Two more points about why I like to study history. Number one is it humanizes people.
Mifrah Mahroof:Hmm.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Like, we tend to think that, oh, we're not like the people of the past, we can't be as pious as them, so what's the point of trying? When you study history, you realize the majority of Muslims were never pious. The majority of Muslims were average. They struggled, they had their sins, they had their good deeds, they were people like us. And, you don't have to be from the old era to get to Jannah. The average person. Can get to Jannah if Allah forgives them for their sins. And that's what we make Dua for the people of the past. Allah forgives them for their sins and for the people of today, Allah forgives us for our sins. So it's very humbling when you read, for example, the travels of the great Muslim travelers throughout history, people like Evliye Celebi or Ibn Batutah, Ibn Jubayr, all of their travel logs have been translated into English. And you realize that the Muslims of their time were just as messed up as the Muslims today, right? And they saw even crazier and wilder things than what happens in the Muslim world today. and you realize that there's always going to be, at every point in time some sins that are predominant and some people who are weak and some people who are pious, and the average person in between who is just average. And it gives more hope to the average person that we can still get to Jannah, right? Because we lose this much of everybody being pious throughout history, uh, and you can relate better to the people of history, right? You can actually relate better to the people of history, when you realize that they are human, and I think that to me is one of the most humbling things about studying history. The other point is that it gets you over this feeling that we are living in the worst point in time in history. We're not living in the worst point in time in our history The ummah has lived through and survived much darker times than what we're going through right now, even just 50 years ago, even just a hundred years ago The ummah was in a much more devastating state than it is in today. We are actually living through a revival phase, like the devastation came from World War I, and now we are 100 years later, we are now in a revival phase. We're actually in a much better place than we were even just 30 years ago. but if you don't study history, you can't see all this. you can't really see all this if you don't study beyond your own life. Yeah.
Mifrah Mahroof:It definitely puts a lot of things in perspective because it shows that there's so much that's happened before. And this is how history moves on. And this is just one part of history. I wonder though, you see how you are saying about those travel logs of, about those Muslim travelers, how they saw things that were like even worse than today. Do you think that, like how everyone's online today and social media and we see more all of those haram things are highlighted more. And then we think that, oh, the world is really bad because it's actually broadcasted those things, whereas in those days it wasn't as broadcasted, but it still happened.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, I've got a very shaky relationship with social media. On one hand, social media has helped me to reach many people and it's also been very good for my business. On the other hand, part of me feels like social media should be haram, like there's more harm than good for the average person on social media. One of the biggest harams is that it has made sin public and normalized. Right? throughout history, you will find, for example, in almost any era of our history, you study, you will find Muslims drank alcohol. They were Muslims who were alcoholics. But they recognized it as a sin. And they did it in private. And they were ashamed of their sin. And if they tried to do it publicly, others would have shamed them, they would have been lashed, they would have been repercussions for publicly sinning. Right? It's the same with homosexual, same with Zina, same with any major sin. It existed, but in the shadows. And, what happens with social media is that sin is not just normalized, it's moralized. Like, there's now a moral justification for sinning. It's become such that social media is all about, being you, going viral, and, getting people to praise you, and it's much easier to do that through sin than through good deeds. Like, if someone goes online, if a Muslim goes online, for example, a Muslim goes online and she takes off her hijab, she will have thousands of people praising her for getting rid of oppression, and freeing herself from the patriarchy. For people who are looking for attention, for people who want that praise, who want that fame, it's very easy to now just get caught up in this world of publicly sinning. This is the big problem with social media. It's not only publicized sin, it's moralized. It's become completely desensitized to it. Just think about, for example, just 20 years ago, how shocking it would be to see an image of a naked woman. Right, and how normal it is today,
Mifrah Mahroof:Hmm.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:it's all over the internet, even if you don't want to see it, it pops up on social media without you because the algorithm just puts it up there, people advertise to it, bots just throw it out there. It's become so normalized that You actually meet young Muslims who don't even really think of it as a sin anymore to look at such pictures.
Mifrah Mahroof:So it sounds like the sins were there, but because it's broadcasted out, it's become more normalized. So people have an impression that, Oh, this time is really bad. We're in a the worst time in history. And then it just makes them go back and, feel like only the Mahdi can save this, right? It's like It's not my responsibility, like I'm helpless. It's interesting.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, this idea that it's not my responsibility. This is us running away from being an ummah, right? Because Allah SWT tells us in the Quran that the believing men and women are allies to each other. They command what is good and they forbid what is evil. Which means that we are supposed to be holding each other to account. We are supposed to be correcting each other, right? This is going away, for example, if a Muslim woman displays her beauty online, and a Muslim man corrects her, she'll say, You have no right to correct me. It's none of your business. Or you're being misogynistic, or you're being a patriarchal. But, it is based the Quran says we are supposed to correct each other. We are supposed to hold each other to account. We have to hold the line somewhere, otherwise, everything comes through, one after the other. So there has to be this, accountability between Muslims and there also has to be this working to improve. Look at the issue of social media. We can just have a defeatist attitude and say social media is here, nothing we can do about it, let's just embrace it or We could try and brainstorm solutions. So for example, one of the things I do with younger people is I try to help them cut down on their social media time
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:because a lot of them are just online 24 7. It's very unhealthy to be online all the time, so I try to help them have healthier habits when it comes to social media. Number one to cut down on what they are following and who they are following. Number two to just log in once or twice a day. And maybe to have an hour a day where you check all your social media. Because it is not healthy to be constantly connected with other people in this way it's not human. What I'm realizing now is that this generation doesn't even have time to think anymore because we're just feeding ourselves these algorithm feeds 24 7. No one actually has time to just sit back and think. It's like we have to be constantly absorbing something. And so people don't have time to form their own thoughts, they don't have time to even think about their own life, to have a vision, to have a goal, to do some self reflection, to improve on themselves. Because we're just constantly connected and we're constantly absorbing other things.
Mifrah Mahroof:days. Um,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, and boredom is important. right? Boredom is important, it's something I do for myself, I try to be offline as much as possible. I don't have social media notifications on any of my devices. I log in once or twice a day just to post something beneficial or to advertise for one of my courses or books and to check my notifications and that's it for the rest of the day I'm not on social media because it is a dangerous place to be and we are the first generation, to be exposed to it. We actually don't really know the long term harms of it until our generation gets old. Then we look back and say oh wow, this really messed up our generation. We the guinea pigs
Mifrah Mahroof:Going back to the topic of Islamic history there, I'm curious to know, what kind of things were in the Ottoman Empire or at least our recent caliphate that you don't see in the Western world today that the average Muslim would be surprised hearing about.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:One of the things that frustrates me about history is the Ottoman Empire is perhaps the least Studied Muslim Empire in the English language. It's very hard to find English resources about the Ottoman Empire and some people know about the Umayyad, some people know about the Abbasids, not many people know about the Ottomans. There's actually a lot of research into the Ottoman Empire this year because after I finish teaching the history course, what I'm currently teaching is a course on Sharia. And more specifically, the history of how the Sharia was applied. And a lot of it focuses on the Ottoman Empire. So I'll give you a few of the interesting things that I noticed about the Ottoman Empire from this study. Number one, I think humanity may have achieved peak freedom under the Ottoman Empire.
Mifrah Mahroof:Interesting.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:like a strange thing to say. Right? Peak freedom. What do I mean by this? So, under the Ottoman Empire, they had the Millat system, the religion system. And what that meant is, you would have a Christian village, or a Christian town, or a Christian neighborhood. Similarly, Jewish towns, Jewish neighborhoods. And they would entirely self govern according to their religion. The only interaction with the government was once a year, they pay the taxes, which is like 2 to 5%, just yeah, just 2 to 5% taxes per year, and
Mifrah Mahroof:40%, 50%, 45% in some. Yeah. There was actually only obligation
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:to the government, to pay the tax. Other than that, the only other interaction with the government is that the Khalifa or his representatives would meet with the priests and rabbis and ask them, Do you need anything? Do you have any problems that we can solve? Is there anything we can do for you? And other than that, all of these Christian towns and villages and Jewish towns and villages were completely self governed. They would be run according to the Torah or the Bible, and they would have full freedom to just live their lives as they wanted. Muslims would not interfere in their lifestyles at all, and it was very similar for Muslims as well. People think of Sharia as, this strict enforcement of every small rule using, violence. That's not what Sharia is. Under Sharia, there's only like 10 sins that carry a capital punishment or like a violent punishment. And the conditions to apply the violent punishments are so strict that they rarely ever carried out. So for example, people bring up the issue of stoning the adulterer. In the 500 years of the Ottoman history, how many people do you think were stoned for adultery in 500 years?
Mifrah Mahroof:I don't think there's any, even in Islamic history, right?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:In 500 years, it was one person.
Mifrah Mahroof:One person. Okay. Wow. One
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:incident in 500 years from what I've been able to find.
Mifrah Mahroof:That's amazing. That's
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:how rare it was for these punishments to actually
Mifrah Mahroof:So it sounds like these
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:They existed more as to scare away people from public sin. Yeah.
Mifrah Mahroof:I see.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:So these laws tend to exist more as a way of scaring people away from public sin. But in Islam, you're not allowed to violate people's privacy. You're not allowed to look into people's private sins. You're not allowed to spy on people, right? So, what people did in private was their own business. So there's actually a lot of freedom under Sharia, the only restriction that the Sharia has that modernity does not have is that in Sharia, public sin is a no. If you see somebody sinning publicly, you will call them out for it, you will advise them, you will shame them for it.
Mifrah Mahroof:So
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:that prevents sin from being normalized.
Mifrah Mahroof:the non, Muslims living in those lands can't say consume alcohol, for example? The non Muslims for example
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:the Christians in their neighborhoods would have their pig farms, they'll have their bars, they'll have their churches, they'll have their alcohol, but they wouldn't be allowed to be drunk in a Muslim area. That would become public sin.
Mifrah Mahroof:right.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Right. So as long as they're not showing up drunk in a Muslim area and causing a public disturbance, Muslims didn't care whether they're eating pork or drinking alcohol or going to the church. They're paying their jizya, they have their freedom of religion.
Mifrah Mahroof:But that wouldn't stop like a Muslim from going into the non Muslim neighborhood if he wanted to drink.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, and that's exactly what happened, right? As I said throughout every phase in our history, there were Muslims who drank alcohol and they always got it from the Christians, right?
Mifrah Mahroof:Hmm. I see. So that's
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:And again, if they did it privately, that's a private sin, that's between them and Allah, Allah forgive them, yeah.
Mifrah Mahroof:of course. okay, so you have those, millet systems by religion, but then what about with today's time where people don't ascribe to a religion, you have your atheist, I don't know what they believe in spirituality and different, would they
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:People not following a religion is an anomaly, right? this isn't something that has been common at any point in our history, and I actually think it's dying out, especially since COVID, since the past five years, there has been a decline in actual atheism. People are starting to believe in the unseen again. People are starting to believe in life after death again, it's just coming in stages. There are a lot more people in the world today who actually believe in angels and in demons than they were 10 years ago. There is a return to an idea that things exist that we can't see. So, the idea of atheists is an anomaly in our history that it wasn't common at any point in our history. But what you will find is that atheists did exist in the Muslim empire and just like any other non Muslim, they were left to their business. They never had communities. They would be individuals. So they'd be considered like mad individuals and people wouldn't really pay much attention
Mifrah Mahroof:then? Would they live within the greater
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:I mean you're more likely to find them in the Christian areas or in the Jewish areas because I mean they would still be Christian by culture or Jewish by culture as many of them are today. Many of them today still culturally identify with these groups, even if they don't really believe in them internally.
Mifrah Mahroof:Right. I see. But in this Islamic world, if we were to be transported there right now, would you only see these millet systems with people of the book religion? So the Christians, the Jews, or would you also have like other communities as well, other faiths? How did
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:This is something that the scholars of today actually have to discuss and figure out because there haven't been communities of atheists in history as far as I know.
Mifrah Mahroof:just atheists,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:And obviously some modern, I was about to bring that up, that some modern religions like Satanism would not have a place under Sharia at all. There is limits to our freedom of religion in Islam, right? the Quran mentions specifically Jews and Christians. But historically, Muslims extended that to any religious community. So historically, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, they all lived under Sharia and paid their Jizya and had their own communities. And that same thing may apply today. It's just that today there are some weird and bizarre beliefs out there that never existed at that time. So, if it Sharia that had to come about today, the Ulama of that land would have to make a decision of how do we deal with these kinds of people. Until then, it's just a hypothetical discussion.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah. I see, that's very interesting. So there were like different, like people lived within their neighborhoods, but they still had the opportunity to mingle with each other and still had the opportunity to travel out to different
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yep.
Mifrah Mahroof:and not be restricted
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:And again, the freedom was a different level compared to today because there were no passports, there were no borders, there were no visas. If you are living in the Ottoman Empire was the size of, what's today, 25 countries. You could be living anywhere in that land and decide you want to move somewhere else in that land, and you're perfectly fine, no one's monitoring you, no one's keeping an eye on you, no one's forcing you, even if you're moving between empires. So, with the Ottoman Empire, the Safavid Empire, the Mughal Empire, the Mablouk Empire, all of these exist at the same time. But as a Muslim, an average Muslim, you could live in any of these empires without having to think about things like citizenship or passports or visas. It's just you had freedom of movement, which is very much restricted today. The modern nation state system has restricted it so much that there's very few countries in the world where you can actually get citizenship as a Muslim. Even most Muslim countries would have to live off visas for life and that puts you at the mercy of people deciding they don't want to renew your visa anymore, kicking you out at any time, so you can't really settle anywhere, that didn't exist under Sharia. That's actually, in my view, that's Haram. It's haram for Muslim governments to treat people like that. If someone's a Muslim, you're supposed to let them, if they want to live in your land, let them live in your land. That's what the Sharia teaches. So there was a lot more freedom, in that sense under the Sharia. For religious communities, in terms of low taxes, in terms of freedom to travel and to move and to settle anywhere in the land. Also, there was freedom in terms of whatever business you wanted to run. The government didn't really pay attention to the average person's life. In general, under Sharia, people and communities self governed. And only if there's a problem, they would go to the local judge, the local qadi. And the local judge, yes, he's paid by the Khalifa, but he's someone who grew up in that town, who went to Madrasa, he knows everyone, he knows the culture, he knows the families. And his primary goal is to keep the peace and to make sure that everyone's, gets along with each other. So, it's again, the government wouldn't even really interfere. The only time the Khalifa would interfere is if somebody complained that the judge is being unfair or the judge is taking bribes, then they would fire them and replace them with someone else. An interesting point is, they actually reached a level of accountability where under the Ottoman Empire, the highest position is scholar could get was that of the Syeikh ul Islam, so the Syeikh ul Islam was like the Grand Mufti and the Chief Qadi of the Ottoman Empire. He's like the main judge and the main Mufti of the Ottoman Empire. And he actually had the power, where if the Ottoman Khalifa was an alcoholic, or someone who's trying to change the Sharia, he could pass a fatwa saying this person's no more fit to be Khalifa, and the army would remove that person and put one of his brothers or cousins in place of him as new khalifa. Woww so there were checks and balances even on the Khalifa himself.
Mifrah Mahroof:that means that even the Khalifa himself wasn't above the law.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:That's the key difference between Sharia and the modern state system, right? In the modern state system, the government makes the law, the government's above the law, the government enforces the law. Under Sharia, it is God's law. The ulama interpret the law. The judges enforce the law. The Khalifa's job is to protect the borders and to keep people safe. And to handle administration. He's not involved in law making at all.
Mifrah Mahroof:Hmm. That's
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:actually an interesting point in our history, besides the Khulafaur Rasyidin who were Ulama themselves after that time, it became two separate power structures. You had the Ulama, the people of knowledge, the Fuqaha, the Muftis, the Qadis, they interpreted the law, they wrote the books of law. They judged between the people. They dealt with new situations. The law was entirely in the hands of the Ulama. And they ran completely as a completely separate power structure that actually had more social influence on the average person than the Khalifa. The Khalifa's in his palace, he's commanding the armies, he's collecting and distributing the taxes, and he's paying the salaries of the Ulama and the governors, and he's really not involved in the day to day lives of the average person. There's no state control the way there is under modern state system. This is something new, especially in the Muslim world. What we have in the past hundred years, where they control almost every aspect of a person's life, and even what the Ulama say, this is very new to Muslim history. it's an anomaly in Muslim history. Historically, ulama had a lot more freedom, and they were actually the leaders of the communities on the ground, and they were the ones who shaped the communities on the ground. This is why we tend to study more biographies of scholars than we do biographies of kings.
Mifrah Mahroof:Hmm. That's very interesting. One question I am curious about though, when you said about taxes though, were they taxed on their income? Was it an income tax or was it what their own tax, like an asset tax? And what was the difference between the Muslims and non Muslims? Were the non Muslims like treated unfairly in the way they were taxed and the Muslims were favoured? what was the understanding of
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:that? Again, it depends on which point in history,
Mifrah Mahroof:well, look, let's just go back
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:400 years of
Mifrah Mahroof:since it was like the recent one.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:There's what we would consider the legitimate taxes and the disputed taxes. So, legitimately the taxes that the government would collect would be the jizya from the non Muslims and the zakah from the Muslims. And along with that they did institute other taxes. There were farm taxes, there was property taxes, to some extent. On mainly on agricultural land, not on other types of land, there was a specific type of agricultural tax that had to be paid to the government as well. And that was more or less it. There wasn't an income tax, there wasn't a VAT, there wasn't all these high levels of taxing we have today where every little thing we are doing is taxed to debt. This didn't exist before modernity. Taxing was actually very low. Not to say that there weren't points in our history where people invented other taxes to exploit people. That did happen. So, for example, some of the early Umayyads, they would double tax converts. Meaning, people were paying the Jizya, and then they converted to Islam. They would now charge them the Zakah and the Jizya.
Mifrah Mahroof:Hmm.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Right? So they would double tax them. This was wrong. This was sinful on their behalf.
Mifrah Mahroof:And the Zakat, when you actually look at like the cost of it.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, so These are the two taxes that existed in the Islam. Jizya is basically what non Muslims pay to the Sharia government, it's like a protection tax. In exchange for Jizya, they have full freedom of religion. They have no military service. In fact, it is the duty of the Muslims to protect them and keep them safe. So if they are attacked, the Muslim army has to protect them, and the Muslim army has to keep them safe. So it's like a protection tax, and they pay it like once a year. Similarly, the Muslims have Zakah, and Zakah is basically two and a half percent. Today, we treat it as a charity. Under the Sharia, it is actually more of a tax. So the government would send tax collectors to collect the Zakah from you, and it would be used by the government for a variety of services. For helping the poor, yes, but also for funding military expeditions. For paying the salaries for the tax collectors themselves, and for a variety of other things as well. So these were the two types of taxes, as well as the agricultural tax.
Mifrah Mahroof:like varied according, is there a set kind of,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Oh, you mean like a set amount?
Mifrah Mahroof:how much was the Jizya tax?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:There's not really a set amount. The few points in history I was able to find numbers for it was actually lower than the Zakah. So Zakah is two and a half percent. And yeah for many places at many points in time Jizya was like two percent
Mifrah Mahroof:2 percent and that's only charged on the people who can afford it.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, exactly. And like in the time of Omar RA for example
Mifrah Mahroof:Hmm.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah. So like in the time of Omar RA, when he found the old Jewish man begging because he couldn't pay the Jizya, He changed the law and he said that we won't charge jizya to the elders, we will actually provide for them because, the elderly, they can't work, they can't pay
Mifrah Mahroof:SubhanAllah, you know what really makes me sad when I actually go out to the shops and I like go buy stuff like I feel very sad when I see elderly behind the cashier, like scanning my items and I
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah, it breaks my
Mifrah Mahroof:it breaks my heart so much because I was like they spent their youth working, paying taxes and putting it into their, what here in Australia is called superannuation, but I know in different countries is their retirement fund, then that retirement fund is taxed. And then that retirement fund loses its worth, like that value, because there's inflation, because the government's print money. So their value actually gets less and less. And then they end up, like, driving or they're in the checkout and they're like elderly men and women. And I feel so bad. And I think to myself, this wouldn't be allowed in an Islamic Sharia ruled world.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:in the Islamic land, what's amazing is not only were elders taken care of. But, for example, I read recently that even for horses that were grown old, they would be like old age homes, retirement homes for horses. So instead of people shooting their horses, when they grow old, they leave them in this place where they could relax and live out their old days.
Mifrah Mahroof:And
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:taken care of by,
Mifrah Mahroof:and dogs right? I heard about that
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:yeah, for cats and dogs as well. There were animal shelters where they would be treated and pampered, really. They're treated very well. Which is still the culture in some Muslim countries like Turkey. That's amazing,
Mifrah Mahroof:like we don't hear these things as commonly. I guess it's now like, as things, especially in these Western lands, it just get more and more expensive, that even to just live, pay the rent, pay your food, which is keeps increasing and like people are getting homeless in these countries, but it's all like covered, it's like they're hidden away, so that it doesn't make the society look bad. It's like there might be like a slum, which is like somewhere else or something. So people don't even know that there are poor people in these Western lands that are like, have all this money and stuff.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:One of the biggest scary things about modernity is that people are more oppressed and controlled than ever before with the illusion of having freedom. So they give them the freedom to sin, but through these sins they control them. So for example, make drugs publicly available, maybe even make them legal. Well now you have a bunch of drug addicts, they're not going to know that the government's oppressing them. They're not going to know what the government policy is. They're not even going to be able to function properly. So in this way they're able to control people. And this is the sad reality of the modern world that through many things, whether it's drug addiction, or pornography addiction, or just keeping the cost of living so high that people can't think about anything else besides work and paying bills in all these ways they're able to keep people under control.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah, I wonder though, you see how all of these prices and all of these, living costs is very high. So it doesn't give people free time at the end because like you obviously have to be working all the time. And because they don't have free time, we won't have time to pursue things that will help human flourishing, invent things, And so do you,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:This is a key difference between how life was under Sharia compared to current life because under Sharia you'll find in many cultures Muslims will just work enough. Firstly, it's just a man would work because the cost of living was low, right? So you didn't need two incomes. So just a man would work and the man would just work enough to make enough money for the day. And then he would go hang out with his friends, go to the masjid, go spend time with his family, engage in his hobbies, be part of the community. It wasn't all about work. There was much more to life than just working.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah. And in today's society, it's all about work. Like you just, you commute for one hour. You get there to the office, then you commute back and you don't see your kids. It really is like a way modern day slavery.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:It is a form of modern day slavery, especially minimum wage work.
Mifrah Mahroof:Hmm.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:debt plus the debts and interest based debt system. It keeps people enslaved for life.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah, because whichever way you go, you're just paying extra tax here and there. And it's like what remains at the end, to just eat food and Subhanallah. I guess the thing that like,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:That's why I said earlier, we tax to debt, that's the modern world. People are Tax to debt. There's no way out of it and there's no room to even breed and have a normal life if you're stuck in that system.
Mifrah Mahroof:I think the thing is very sad like you were saying earlier, it's the illusion that the system we're in is the best system. We have freedom, we can do anything we like. And then when you think about Sharia law, or the thief gets their hand cut off and all of these things. So, it's like this thing, people have this impression that it's a barbaric law. and we're at the best time because we're in the modern world. But it's not really the case. But,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:we are now living in a time where crime is out of control. And under Sharia, we had the highest levels of safety. And even something as simple as what you mentioned now, okay, cut off the hands of the thief. Actually, you amputate the hand of the professional thief. That's a better way, or a more correct way of wording it. Because the average thief, under Sharia, does not get their hands chopped off. They may get even just a shouting, either or scolding. Or so, if they were poor, hungry, they may actually just give them charity instead. That's actually how Sharia would work. If somebody stole an apple, and they were taken to the judge, and they told the judge that they're hungry and they're poor, the judge will tell the shop owner, forgive him and give it to him as charity. That's Sharia. Right? It's only the professional, big boss type of thief, who's dedicated his life to crime, when he's finally caught, that they'll make an example of him. And that would completely reduce
Mifrah Mahroof:the, it sounds like the big corporations, the banks.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:people don't realize that Sharia law was always effective compared to any of the systems people have invented afterwards. Sharia is the most effective law system. For reducing public immorality, for reducing crime, for creating a God conscious community, for having family systems that work, for having charity systems that work, for having a low cost of living. In all these areas, Sharia works effectively. The problem is there's no land on earth today that actually has Sharia that you can point to as an example.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah, of course. But I think it's like you were saying, right now is the time of revival. And right now it's very important that we learn this because if we don't know that there is a better way for the world to function, then we would think that this is the best way.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:And this is why history is important. Because right now, history is our only reference point for Sharia. Right, and how it worked. That's why I'm teaching this course. So I had a course on history, 30 videos. Currently, I'm teaching a course on Sharia. That's also 30 videos. I only got 3 left to record. And, again, it's the same thing. I'm trying to show, historically, this is how the Sharia functioned. And it's not as people think, it's not what people imagine. So, for example, some people imagine under Sharia, that the Khalifa's going around chopping women's heads off if they're not wearing Hijab. Right? I cannot find any historical reference of the government ever enforcing hijab. Like it's not something the government gets involved with. Yeah, maybe a woman's husband or father would enforce hijab as the head of the household. But maybe some aunties in the community may shame them if they leave the house without hijab. But that's as far as it goes, right? Or maybe the local alim will give them a lecture about the importance of hijab. There's no government involvement. There's no state punishment. There's nothing like that. It was on a family level. It wasn't on the government level. Under Sharia, there's levels of power and one of those levels of power is the family. So hijab was a family thing. It wasn't something the government got involved with. Furthermore, under Sharia, the non Muslim woman and the slave woman wouldn't wear hijab. So if you see a woman walking around in the city without hijab, you're not going to assume, that she's a Muslim woman sinning. You might just assume it's not a Muslim or something, right? And you lower your gaze and carry on
Mifrah Mahroof:It's so interesting. It's like it goes back to that, I don't know if it's a saying or a quote or something, but it's like, you can't decolonize our lands until we decolonize our minds. And I think we have this
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:that's that's the big one. Yeah
Mifrah Mahroof:barbaricness and like, Oh, that won't work. But it's because there's a lack of information and we don't know any better. SubhanAllah. This
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:is again one of the reasons why I'm so against the school system and a radical Anti schooler and homeschooler because I read the school system we have today. Yeah, the school system we have today was designed by the colonizers, and it is used to colonize our minds. And I see people come out of school with absolutely un Islamic ideas And you don't even know they have un Islamic ideas because you spent 13 years in that system being indoctrinated with all these ideas So when we're educating people we have to de school their brains We have to de colonize their brains because there's so much wrong information in them
Mifrah Mahroof:Hmm. SubhanAllah. I definitely have to get you on another episode to dive deep about that and your lessons you learned over homeschooling your own children. It's been so interesting to get deep into this topic. But, we're actually getting close to the end of our time. So I would love to ask you the questions that we ask all our guests. What's one life hack that's improved your life?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:A life hack that's improved my life. Well, you know, I've written books on time management that's filled with dozens of life hacks I've had to choose one of them. My favorite one is, You know taking a major project and just breaking it down into small workable chunks, and then just focusing on the next step and then the next step and then the next step so For example writing a book sounds like such a mind boggling task to most people. But I just focus on writing 1000 words a day Which takes me about 30 minutes. I write 1000 words a day, at the age of 38, I've written over 20 books. Right. So it's really about breaking things down into a workable chunk. Like someone ask you like, okay, my Sharia course 30 videos, I'm recording. I actually record one video a week. It's a very workable chunk to do one video a week. So you can think to yourself that I'm going to do, this large project and it feels overwhelming or you can think to yourself I just need to do this much for the week and you do that consistently Every week for a year and the work gets done. So for me taking a large project and breaking it down into manageable chunks has been One of the most important life hacks that has made every aspect of my life easier. And I apply it across the board to everything I do
Mifrah Mahroof:Alhamdulillah. That's awesome. And what about a book that's helped you level up in your life?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Same thing books I read 60 books a year, 60 how do I even choose
Mifrah Mahroof:which which one stands out to you this year?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:This year there's been a lot of books I read that really stood out, but mostly Dr. Wael Hallaq's books on Sharia, right? I've been talking a lot about Sharia today.
Mifrah Mahroof:Yeah.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:I actually only discovered Dr. Wael Hallaq's books on the topic a year ago, and I've read all his books in this one year. You know, on the topic. I've actually read one of them twice, because he's the only Western academic author who's writing honestly about the topic. Others have their biases, and they're trying to portray the Sharia as barbaric, and they're lying, and he just gives, such an honest and beautiful description of what life was like under Sharia, and those books were mind blowing for me, and I used them as a basis for my course on Sharia, and a lot of discussion I have today is based on his books as well. So, the first book of which I read one year ago, The Impossible State, I just finished reading it for a second time last week. It basically shows how Sharia wouldn't work in the nation state system. But it shows it in a way that proved the nation state system to be oppressive and Sharia to be
Mifrah Mahroof:Oh yeah, I actually, I heard a podcast series about that with Imam Tom.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yeah
Mifrah Mahroof:Based on that
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yes, Imam Tom's podcast was my introduction to the book and
Mifrah Mahroof:was very,
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:the author. So that's really a good. Yeah, that's a book and an author that's made a huge impression on me this year. If I had to go to self help books that made a big difference in my life, when I was very young, the first self help book to really make a difference in my life was Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. And I remember back then, I used to recommend it to everyone. At that point in my time, that was what I needed to read. Now, there's many other books that came afterwards that built upon that. But yeah, for young people, that's always a good starting point here.
Mifrah Mahroof:True. Awesome! And where can our listeners find you online?
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Well, my website is islamicselfhelp.com, and my second younger website is izzahacademy.com. Islamic self help has been around for 10 years with a lot of things there, online courses, ebooks, blog posts. Izzah Academy is just about a year old, so there's not as much content there. Islamic self help focuses on personal development. Izzah Academy focuses on marriage, parenting, masculinity, femininity, reviving the traditional Muslim home that's the goal of izzah Academy. And those are my two main websites. Otherwise, I'm active on Twitter and on YouTube. Recently I have been working with Yaqeen Institute, so you may find some of my stuff there as well.
Mifrah Mahroof:And you also have that very comprehensive course on Islamic history as well.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Yes, so I have my online course on Islamic history and my newer one on history of Sharia? Uh, I highly recommend both courses if you learn more about this.
Mifrah Mahroof:It's still in the making.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:The new course is currently labeled an Introduction to Islamic Law, but once I'm completed with it, I might end up changing the name because it ended up being more of a history course.
Mifrah Mahroof:Oh, nice. Thank you so much for coming on. I've learned a lot in today's session. I really hope our listeners have also learned and it actually sparked that interest and planted that seed to learn more about our history and learn about how the world was before how things were today. Alhamdulillah. Thank you so much.
Shaykh Ismail Kamdar:Thank you for having me. JazakAllah khairan.
Mifrah Mahroof:Hey everyone. That wraps up another episode from the Muslim Life Hackers podcast. I really hope you enjoyed our chat today. I've got some great takeaways. if you like what you heard and don't want to miss out on our next conversations, hit that subscribe button on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to this from. It means a lot to us, and it helps us reach more people who can benefit from this show. Thank you again for tuning in. Until next time, keep striving and getting better every day.
